The Texas School Book Depository, located at 411 Elm Street in Dallas, TX, was where school books were sold and distributed from.

The top three floors (5, 6, and 7) were the floors where boxes of books were stored.

The first floor was where the order fillers started, going down their lists and getting the necessary books, where they were then wrapped, packaged in boxes, then made ready for transportation and distribution.

The loading dock in the back is where the trucks would be loaded with these boxes, or from where trucks with new boxes were unloaded. 

The order filler would very often collect the necessary (amounts of) books from the top three floors if the stock on the first floor was insufficient. And that's what Lee Harvey Oswald did on a daily basis.

 

For his job as an order filler he had access to all the floors, but most commonly the first floor, second floor and the top three floors.

The second, third and fourth floors were mainly offices, but the second floor had a small storage section and a lunch room.

There were two lunch rooms; the first floor 'domino room' was mainly used by minorities and order fillers, the second floor lunch room was mainly used by office employees. The latter was the only lunch room where there was a soda machine.

There are two staircases; one in the South East corner, which only goes to the 2nd floor, and one in the North West corner, which goes all the way up to the 7th floor.

D.H. Byrd owned the building, the TSBD leased it, Roy S. Truly was the building supervisor, and William Shelley was the manager of several departments within the building. William Shelley was also Oswald's direct supervisor.

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The following are testimonies made by a number of employees of the various departments within the Texas School Book Depository, who were working in that building at the time of the assassination, and who were, in once capacity or another, witness to the assassination. These testimonies were made to the Warren Commission at various dates and times.

 

NOTE: there is specific mention of statements made by these witnesses to the FBI before they gave testimony to the Warren Commission.

           The commission seemed to take special interest in these wrongful statements and purposely went on record to have the witnesses

           deny these statements. So who do we believe?

 

ADDENDUM:  vol. VI, p. 327 + vol. VII, p. 390 refers to the Warren Report volume number and page of that particular volume.

                        I have used several of these references throughout the next few pages.

                        The following link is the online version of the Warren Report: https://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/index.php

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Bill Shelley                                              vol. VI, p. 327 + vol. VII, p. 390

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[ regarding when he saw Oswald ]

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Mr. BALL - "Did you see him from time to time during that day?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I am sure I did. I do remember seeing him when I came down to eat lunch about 10 to 12."

Mr. BALL - "Where had you been working?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I had been on the sixth floor with the boys laying that floor that morning."

Mr. BALL - "What time did you go down and eat lunch?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "It was around 10 'til."

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. . .

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Mr. BALL - "What did you hear?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Well, I heard something sounded like it was a firecracker and a slight pause and then two more a little bit closer together."

Mr. BALL - "And then?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I didn't think anything about it."

Mr. BALL - "What did it sound like to you?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Sounded like a miniature cannon or baby giant firecracker, wasn't real loud."

Mr. BALL - "What happened; what did you do then?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I didn't do anything for a minute."

Mr. BALL - "What seemed to be the direction or source of the sound?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Sounded like it came from the west."

Mr. BALL - "It sounded like it came from the west?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes."

​

[ his reaction to the shots was really sluggish, but standing in front of the TSBD, he admits it sounded like the shots came from the West.

  His right. Towards the grassy knoll / railroad area ]

 

. . .

 

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes; Mr. Truly left me guarding the elevator, not to let anybody up and down the elevator or stairway and some plainclothesmen came in; I don't know whether they were Secret Service or FBI or what but they wanted me to take them upstairs, so we went up and started searching the various floors."

Mr. BALL - "Did you go up on the sixth floor?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BALL - "Were you there when they found anything up there?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I was, I believe I was on the sixth floor when they found the gun but we were searching all parts of that floor."

 

[ I've read several testimonies of people seeing plain clothesmen in and around the depository without identifying themselves to anyone ]

 

. . .

 

[ regarding the leftover lunch on the sixth floor - Mr. Shelley mistook the Dr. Pepper bottle for a Coke bottle ]

 

Mr. SHELLEY - "Laying on a sack."

Mr. BALL - "Laying on a sack?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir; with a coke bottle sitting in the window."

 

[ ibid. Bonnie Ray Williams left an empty Dr. Pepper bottle on a box ]

 

Mr. BALL - "Did you see any other chicken bones anyplace around there?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "No, sir; that's all."

Mr. BALL - "That's the only ones?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "That's all."

Mr. BALL - "Did you see anybody eating fried chicken on that floor that morning?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "At one time I think I said I did but Charles Givens was the guy that was eating and he was further on over toward the west side and he was eating a sandwich so he says."

Mr. BALL - "Now you say that you thought that you had seen someone had eaten fried chicken that morning?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I thought I had; those colored boys are always eating chicken."

Mr. BALL - "Do you think you did or do you know?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I asked Charles Givens whether it was him that was eating and he said it was a sandwich."

Mr. BALL - "Was that before you went down for lunch?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir; it was pretty early in the morning, about 9:30."

 

[ either Mr. Shelley's knowledge of his employees is awful, or his memory is just plain bad because he's confusing Bonnie Ray Williams with Charles Givens ]

 

. . .

 

Mr. BALL - "Now at a later time do you remember a clipboard being found?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BALL - "Do you know who found it?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Frankie Kaiser."

Mr. BALL - "Where did he find it?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "He found it on the sixth floor in the corner of the stairway."

Mr. BALL - "Did he show you the place?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes."

Mr. BALL - "Point it out to you?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes; so I invited Mr. Pinkston---"

Mr. BALL - "Mr. who?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Pinkston of the FBI."

Mr. BALL - "Did he come out and get the clipboard?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes; he got it."

Mr. BALL - "But Frankie Kaiser pointed it out to you, did he?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BALL - "And you called the FBI and pointed it out to him?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "He was down there at the time and I told him about it and he and Frankie and I went up and got it."

Mr. BALL - "Do you know what date?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "No, sir; that, I sure couldn't tell you. It was the following week though, I am pretty sure."

Mr. BALL - "You mean after the 22d, the following, you say, the 22d of November?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BALL - "Did you examine that clipboard?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "No, sir."

Mr. BALL - "Did you examine it to see whether. or not there was on the clipboard any orders?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BALL - "Unfilled orders?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir; there were some invoices on it."

Mr. BALL - "Were you able to identify those invoices and state to whom they had been assigned to fill?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "They were Scott, Foresman invoices."

Mr. BALL - "Scott, Foresman invoices?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes, sir; and he filled mostly Scott, Foresman orders."

Mr. BALL - "Who is "he"?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Oswald."

Mr. BALL - "Oswald filled mostly Scott, Foresman orders?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Yes."

 

. . .

 

Mr. BALL - "Do you know whether or not he was filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "No, sir; not for sure."

Mr. BALL - "Do you know whether anybody else was filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "I am sure they were; that's our biggest publishers; there's more of them."

Mr. BALL - "Then you believe others besides Oswald were filling Scott, Foresman orders that day?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "Probably were."

Mr. BALL - "Is there any way .you can determine what order filler had that clipboard?"

Mr. SHELLEY - "No, sir."

​

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[ so anyone filling out Scott, Foresman orders that day could have left that clipboard, not necessarily just Oswald ]

 

 

Roy S. Truly                                       vol. III, p. 212 + vol. VII, p. 380 + 591

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Mr. BELIN - "Mr. Truly, when did you first hear of the name of Lee Harvey Oswald?"

Mr. TRULY - "I heard the name on or about October 15th."

Mr. BELIN - "Of what year?"

Mr. TRULY - "Of 1963."

Mr. BELIN - "And from whom did you hear the name? Could you just relate to the Commission the circumstances, if you would, please?"

Mr. TRULY - "I received a phone call from a lady in Irving who said her name was Mrs. Paine."

Mr. BELIN - "All right. What did Mrs. Paine say, and what did you say?"

Mr. TRULY - "She said, "Mr. Truly,"---words to this effect---you understand---" Mr. Truly, you don't know who I am but I have a neighbor whose brother works for you. I don't know what his name is. But he tells his sister that you are very busy. And I am just wondering if you can use another man," or words to that effect.  And I told Mrs.---she said, "I have a fine young man living here with his wife and baby, and his wife is expecting a baby--another baby, in a few days, and he needs work desperately." Now, this is not absolutely--this is as near as I can remember the conversation over the telephone. And I told Mrs. Paine that-- to send him down, and I would talk to him--that I didn't have anything in mind for him of a permanent nature, but if he was suited, we could possibly use him for a brief time."

Mr. BELIN - "Was there anything else from that conversation that you remember at all, or not?"

Mr. TRULY - "No. I believe that was the first and the last time that I talked to Mrs. Paine. In fact, I could not remember her name afterwards until I saw her name in print, and then it popped into my mind that this was the lady who called me."

 

[ Ibid: the neighbor in question is Buell Wesley Frazier ]

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. . .

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Mr. BELIN - "Where, generally, are Scott, Foresman books kept?"

Mr. TRULY - "On the first floor and the sixth floor. We have a large quantity of their books on the sixth floor."

Mr. BELIN - "And this is the area where Lee Harvey Oswald worked?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is right."

Mr. BELIN - "That publisher?"

Mr. TRULY - "That publisher. He had occasion to go to the sixth floor quite a number of times every day, each day, after books."

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. . .

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Mr. BELIN - "Where, generally, are Scott, Foresman books kept?"

Mr. TRULY - "On the first floor and the sixth floor. We have a large quantity of their books on the sixth floor."

Mr. BELIN - "And this is the area where Lee Harvey Oswald worked?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is right."

Mr. BELIN - "That publisher?"

Mr. TRULY - "That publisher. He had occasion to go to the sixth floor quite a number of times every day, each day, after books."

​

. . .

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Mr. BELIN - "All right. Then what did you see happen?"

Mr. TRULY - "I heard an explosion, which I thought was a toy cannon or a loud firecracker from west of the building. Nothing happened at this first explosion. Everything was frozen. And immediately after two more explosions, which I realized that I thought was a gun, a rifle of some kind. The President's--I saw the President's car swerve to the left and stop somewheres down in this area. It is misleading here. And that is the last I saw of his ear, because this crowd, when the third shot rang out--there was a large crowd all along this abutment here, this little wall, and there was some around us in front--they began screaming and falling to the ground. And the people in front of myself and Mr. Campbell surged back, either in terror or panic. They must have seen this thing. I became separated from Mr. Campbell. They just practically bore me back to the first step on the entrance of our building."

​

[ so Truly's recollection was that the shots came from the West, ie. the parkinglot / grassy knoll / rail road yard area ]

​

. . .

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[ both elevators were stuck on the 5th floor and didn't seem to come down when Truly pushed the button so he shouted up to anyone who could hear ]

 

Mr. BELIN - "What did you call?"

Mr. TRULY - "I said, "Turn loose the elevator." Those boys understand that language."

Mr. BELIN - "What does that mean?"

Mr. TRULY - "That means if they have the gates up, they go pull the gates down, and when you press the button, you can pull it down."

Mr. BELIN - "And how many times did you yell that?"

Mr. TRULY - "Two times."

 

[ but there was no response, because somehow Norman, Jarman and Williams didn't hear Truly - so Truly and Baker ran up the stairs ]

 

. . .

​

Mr. TRULY - "He was a few feet. It is hard for me to tell. I ran right on around to my left, started to continue on up the stairway to the third floor, and on up."

Mr. BELIN - "Now when you say you ran on to your left, did you look straight ahead to see whether there was anyone in that area, or were you intent on just going upstairs?"

Mr. TRULY - "If there had been anybody in that area, I would have seen him on the outside. But I was content--I was trying to show the officer the pathway up, where the elevators--I mean where the stairways continued."

​

. . .

 

                                                     [ CE 497 - the diagram of the second floor is being used for points of reference ]

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Mr. BELIN - "All right. Number 23, the arrow points to the door that has the glass in it. Now, as you raced around, how far did you start up the stairs towards the third floor there?"

Mr. TRULY - "I suppose I was up two or three steps before I realized the officer wasn't following me."

Mr. BELIN - "Then what did you do?"

Mr. TRULY - "I came back to the second floor landing."

Mr. BELIN - "What did you see?"

Mr. TRULY - "I heard some voices, or a voice, coming from the area of the lunchroom, or the inside vestibule, the area of 24."

Mr. BELIN - "All right. And I see that there appears to be on the second floor diagram, a room marked lunchroom."

Mr. TRULY - "That is right."

Mr. BELIN - "What did you do then?"

Mr. TRULY - "I ran over and looked in this door No. 23."

Mr. BELIN - "Through the glass, or was the door open?"

Mr. TRULY - "I don't know. I think I opened the door. I feel like I did. I don't remember."

Mr. BELIN - "It could have been open or it could have been closed, you do not remember?"

Mr. TRULY - "The chances are it was closed."

Mr. BELIN - "You thought you opened it?"

Mr. TRULY - "I think I opened it. I opened the door back and leaned in this way."

Mr. BELIN - "What did you see?"

Mr. TRULY - "I saw the officer almost directly in the doorway of the lunch-room facing Lee Harvey Oswald."

Mr. BELIN - "And where was Lee Harvey Oswald at the time you saw him?"

Mr. TRULY - "He was at the front of the lunchroom, not very far inside he was just inside the lunchroom door."

 

. . .

​

Mr. BELIN - "Did you hear Lee Harvey Oswald say anything?"

Mr. TRULY - "Not a thing."

Mr. BELIN - "Did you see any expression on his face? Or weren't you paying attention?"

Mr. TRULY - "He didn't seem to be excited or overly afraid or anything. He might have been a bit startled, like I might have been if somebody confronted me. But I cannot recall any change in expression of any kind on his face."

 

. . .

 

Mr. DULLES - "May I ask you a question? Do you know why it was that the officer didn't follow you up the stairs, but instead was distracted, as it were, and went with Lee Harvey Oswald into the lunchroom?"

Mr. TRULY - "I never knew until a day or two ago that he said he saw a movement, saw a man going away from him."

Mr. DULLES - "As he was going up the stairs?"

Mr. TRULY - "As he got to the second floor landing. While I was going around, he saw a movement."

Mr. DULLES - "And he followed that?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is right."

Representative FORD - "He saw a movement in the lunchroom or a man go into the lunchroom?"

Mr. TRULY - "He saw the back of a man inside the door--I suppose door No. 23. But that isn't my statement. I didn't learn about that, you see, until the other day."

 

. . .

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                                                          [ CE 487 - the diagram of the fifth floor is being used for points of reference ]

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Mr. BELIN - "Now, Exhibit 487 appears to be a diagram of the fifth floor. As I understand it, you might mark on that diagram the way you went from the stairs over to the east elevator."

Mr. TRULY - "Well, I started around towards the stairway, and then I noted that this east elevator was there. So I told the officer, "Come on, here is an elevator," and then we ran down to the east side, and got on the east elevator."

Mr. BELIN - "Could you put the letter "T" at the end of that line, please? All right. Now, where did you go with the east elevator, to what floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "We rode the east elevator to the seventh floor."

Mr. BELIN - "Did you stop at the sixth floor at all?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir."

Mr. BELIN - "What did you do when you got to the seventh floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "We ran up a little stairway that leads out through a little penthouse on to the roof."

Mr. BELIN - "What did you do on the roof?"

Mr. TRULY - "We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down."

Mr. BELIN - "Did the officer say to you why he wanted to go up to the roof?"

Mr. TRULY - "No. At that time, he didn't."

Mr. BELIN - "Did he ever prior to meeting you again on March 20th tell you why he wanted to go on the roof?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir."

Mr. BELIN - "Where did you think the shots came from?"

Mr. TRULY - "I thought the shots came from the vicinity of the railroad or the WPA project, behind the WPA project west of the building."

Mr. BELIN - "Did you have any conversation with the officer that you can remember? About where you thought the shots came from?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes. When--some time in the course, I believe, after we reached the roof, the officer looked down over the boxcars and the railroad tracks and the crowd below. Then he looked around the edge of the roof for any evidence of anybody being there. And then looked up at the runways and the big sign on the-roof. He saw nothing. He came over. And some time about then I said, "Officer, I think"--let's back up. I believe the officer told me as we walked down into the seventh floor, "Be careful, this man will blow your head off." And I told the officer that I didn't feel like the shots came from the building. I said, "I think we are wasting our time up here," or words to that effect, "I don't believe these shots came from the building."

Mr. BELIN - "Did he say anything to that at all?"

Mr. TRULY - "I don't recall exactly what he said. I believe he said, yes, or somebody said they did, or some such thing as that. I don't remember. I have heard so many things since, you know."

 

[ interesting stuff - they completely skipped the 6th floor, looked towards the rail road tracks once they were on the roof, and Truly believes the shots came from there, and all this left the real shooter, whomever he was, ample time to make his way down from the 6th floor while Truly and Baker were on the 7th and the roof ]

 

. . .

​​

[ the West elevator was stuck on the 5th when Truly and Baker were on the 1st floor, but upon arriving on the 5th it was gone ]

 

Mr. BELIN - "Mr. Truly, when you took the elevator to the fifth--from the fifth to the seventh floor, that east elevator did you see the west elevator at all as you passed the sixth floor, when you got to the seventh floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; because I could not see the west elevator while operating the east elevator."

Mr. BELIN - "You mean because you were not looking at it, or you just couldn't see it?"

Mr. TRULY - "Well, the back of the east elevator is solid metal, and if I passed--yes; I could. I beg your pardon. I could see it from the fifth floor. I didn't notice it anywheres up there. I wasn't really looking for it, however."

Mr. BELIN - "Now, after you got--when did you notice that west elevator next? If you know."

Mr. TRULY - "I don't know."

Mr. BELIN - "I believe you said when you first saw the elevators, you thought they were both on the same floor, the fifth floor."

Mr. TRULY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BELIN - "Then how do you explain that when you got to the fifth floor, one of the elevators was not there?"

Mr. TRULY - "I don't know, sir. I think one of my boys was getting stock off the fifth floor on the back side, and probably moved the elevator at the time somewheres between the time we were running upstairs. And I would not have remembered that. I mean I wouldn't have really heard that, with the commotion we were making running up the enclosed stairwell."

Mr. BELIN - "Did you see anyone on the fifth floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes. When coming down I am sure I saw Jack Dougherty getting some books off the fifth floor. Now, this is so dim in my mind that I could be making a mistake. But I believe that he was getting some stock, that he had already gone back to work, and that he was getting some stock off the fifth floor."

Mr. BELIN - "You really don't know who was operating the elevator, then, is that correct?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is correct."

Mr. BELIN - "What is your best guess?"

Mr. TRULY - "My best guess is that Jack Dougherty was."

Mr. BELIN - "Now, after you got down from the seventh floor, you then went down to the sixth floor with Officer Baker?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes."

Mr. BELIN - "Did he look around on the sixth floor at all or not?"

Mr. TRULY - "Just before we got on the elevator on the seventh floor, Officer Baker ran over and looked in a little room on the seventh floor, and glanced around on that floor, which is open, and it didn't take much of a search. And then we reached the sixth floor. I stopped. He glanced over the sixth floor quickly."

Mr. BELIN - "Could you see the southeast corner of the sixth floor from there?"

Mr. TRULY - "I don't think so; no, sir. You could not."

Mr. BELIN - "Then what?"

Mr. TRULY - "Then we continued on down, and we saw officers on the fourth floor. I don't recall that we stopped any more until we reached the first floor. But I do recall there was an officer on the fourth floor, by the time we got down that far."

 

[ so Jack Dougherty, unphased at what had happened outside just moments earlier, went back to work filling orders on the 5th floor ]

 

. . .

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Mr. TRULY - "Then in a few minutes--it could have been moments or minutes at a time like that--I noticed some of my boys were over in the west corner of the shipping department, and there were several officers over there taking their names and addresses, and so forth. There were other officers in other parts of the building taking other employees, like office people's names. I noticed that Lee Oswald was not among these boys. So I picked up the telephone and called Mr. Aiken down at the other warehouse who keeps our application blanks. Back up there. First I mentioned to Mr. Campbell--I asked Bill Shelley if he had seen him, he looked around and said no."

Mr. BELIN - "When you asked Bill Shelley if he had seen whom?"

Mr. TRULY - "Lee Oswald. I said, "Have you seen him around lately," and he said no. So Mr. Campbell is standing there, and I said, "I have a boy over here missing. I don't know whether to report it or not." Because I had another one or two out then. I didn't know whether they were all there or not. He said, "What do you think"? And I got to thinking. He said, "Well, we better do it anyway." It was so quick after that. So I picked the phone up then and called Mr. Aiken, at the warehouse, and got the boy's name and general description and telephone number and address at Irving."

Mr. BELIN - "Did you have any address for him in Dallas, or did you just have an address in Irving?"

Mr. TRULY - "Just the address in Irving. I knew nothing of this Dallas address. I didn't know he was living away from his family."

  

. . .

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Mr. BELIN - "Why didn't you ask for any other employees?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is the only one that I could be certain right then was missing."

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[ how did he make that assessment so fast when so many employees were still outside? ]

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Mr. BELIN - "Then what did you do after you got that information?"

Mr. TRULY - "Chief Lumpkin of the Dallas Police Department was standing a few feet from me. I told Chief Lumpkin that I had a boy missing over here "I don't know whether it amounts to anything or not." And I gave him his description. And he says, "Just a moment. We will go tell Captain Fritz."

Mr. BELIN - "All right. And then what happened?"

Mr. TRULY - "So Chief Lumpkin had several officers there that he was talking to, and I assumed that he gave him some instructions of some nature I didn't hear it. And then he turned to me and says, "Now we will go upstairs". So we got on one of the elevators, I don't know which, and rode up to the sixth floor. I didn't know Captain Fritz was on the sixth floor. And he was over in the northwest corner of the building."

Mr. BELIN - "By the stairs there?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes; by the stairs."

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. . .

 

Mr. TRULY - "... And I went back downstairs in a few minutes. There was a reporter followed me away from that spot, and asked me who Oswald was. I told the reporter, "You must have ears like a bird, or something. I don't want to say anything about a boy I don't know anything about. This is a terrible thing." Or words to that effect. I said, "Don't bother me. Don't mention the name. Let's find something out." So I went back downstairs with Chief Lumpkin."

Mr. BELIN - "When you got on the sixth floor, did you happen to go over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor at about that time or not?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I sure didn't."

Mr. BELIN - "When did you get over to the southeast corner of the sixth floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "That I can't answer. I don't remember when I went over there. It was sometime before I learned that they had found either the rifle or the spent shell cases. It could have been at the time I went up and told them about Lee Harvey Oswald being missing. I cannot remember. But I didn't know it. I didn't see them find them, and I didn't know at the time I don't know how long they had the things."

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. . .

 

Mr. BELIN - "Mr. Truly, in line with Congressman Ford's questions, was there ever a clipboard found in your building at all?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes sir. Sometime later there was a clipboard found that had two or three orders on it."

Mr. BELIN - "What were those orders dated?"

Mr. TRULY - "I don't remember, sir."

Mr. BELIN - "Do you remember where the clipboard was found?"

Mr. TRULY - "I later learned it was found up on the sixth floor, near the stairway, behind some cartons. I do not remember just exactly how many orders were on it, but I think it was only two or three."

Mr. BELIN - "Do you remember who found it?"

Mr. TRULY - "A boy by the name of Frankie Kaiser."

Mr. BELIN - "Is he still one of your employees?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes, sir."

Mr. BELIN - "Do you know whether this was ever identified as having ever belonged to any particular employee of yours?"

Mr. TRULY - "Well, he brought the clipboard to Bill Shelley and told him about it, and he said, "This is an old clipboard I used, to use. This is the one that Oswald was using." It was a kind of homemade affair."

Mr. BELIN - "When you say he brought it to Bill Shelley, who are you referring to?"

Mr. TRULY - "I am referring to Frankie Kaiser who brought the clipboard with the orders downstairs and told Bill Shelley that he had found Oswald's clipboard with some orders on it."

 

[ what this proves is that Oswald was indeed working on the 6th floor that morning, leaving his clipboard on a stack of boxes before going down-stairs to have his lunch ]

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. . .

 

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I don't recall hiring anyone else other than Oswald for that building the same day that I hired Oswald. I believe, if I am not mistaken, I hired another boy for a temporary job, and put him in the other warehouse at 1917 North Houston."

Mr. DULLES - "At a different warehouse?"

Mr. TRULY - "At a different warehouse. He was laid off November 15th, I believe November 15th, or something like that."

Mr. DULLES - "What I was getting at is whether an accomplice could have gotten in in that way. That is why I was asking the question."

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I don't recall. Actually, the end of our fall rush--if it hadn't existed a week or 2 weeks longer, or if we had not been using some of our regular boys putting down this plywood, we would not have had any need for Lee Oswald at that time, which is a tragic thing for me to think about."

 

. . .

 

Representative FORD - "When you noticed the police assembling the employees after the assassination, what prompted you to think that Oswald was not among them?"

Mr. TRULY - "I have asked myself that many times. I cannot give an answer. Unless it was the fact that I knew he was on the second floor, I had seen him 10 or 15 minutes, or whatever it was, before that. That might have brought that boy's name to my mind--because I was looking over there and he was the only one I missed at that time that I could think of. Subconsciously it might have been because I saw him on the second floor and I knew he was in the building."

Representative FORD - "Had there been any traits that you had noticed from the time of his employment that might have made you think then that there was a connection between the shooting and Oswald?"

Mr. TRULY - "Not at all. In fact, I was fooled so completely by the sound of--the direction of the shot, that I did not believe still did not believe maybe I could not force myself to believe, that the shots came from that building until I learned that they found the gun and the shells there. So I had no feeling whatever that they did come from there. I am sure that did not bring Oswald in my mind. But it was just the fact that they were trying to get people's names."

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. . .

 

[ regarding the encounter with Oswald in the 2nd floor lunchroom ]

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Mr. DULLES - "Anything about his appearance that was startling or unusual?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir. No, sir; I didn't see him panting like he had been running or anything."

Mr. DULLES - "Didn't appear to be doing anything special, moving in any direction?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir. He was standing still facing the doorway to the lunch-room. The officer was there with a gun pointed at him, around towards his middle, almost touching."

 

. . .

 

Mr. MCCLOY - "Did you ever have any reason to suspect any other member--any other of your boys of being in any way connected with this affair?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I never have found anything or any actions to make me feel that they might be connected with it."

Mr. MCCLOY - "You never observed Oswald conversing with any strange or unidentified characters during his employment with you?"

Mr. TRULY - "Never."

Mr. DULLES - "Did Oswald have any visitors as far as you know?"

Mr. TRULY - "Never knew of a one; no, sir."

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. . .

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[ regarding Oswald's 'getaway' ]

 

Mr. TRULY - "I think--he had two possible routes there. One of them, he could come half way down the east wall and down this way, but he would have to make one more turn. But if he came all the way down the east wall to where the rows of books stop, he had a straight run toward the sixth floor stairs."

Mr. DULLES - "You do not think he used any of the elevators at any time to get from the sixth to the second floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "You mean after the shooting? No, sir; he just could not, because those elevators, I saw myself, were both on the fifth floor, they were both even. And I tried to get one of them, and then when we ran up to the second floor--it would have been impossible for him to have come down either one of those elevators after the assassination. He had to use the stairway as his only way of getting down--since we did see the elevators in those positions."

Mr. DULLES - "He could not have taken it down and then have somebody else go up to, that floor and leave it?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I don't believe he would have had time for that."

Representative FORD - "He couldn't have taken an elevator down and then sent it up to a higher floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir. Yes; he could. I suppose he could put his hand through the slotted bars and touched one of the upper floors."

Mr. BELIN - "On both elevators?"

Mr. TRULY - "That is just the west one only."

Representative FORD - "That was feasible, even though it might be a little difficult?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes, sir."

Representative FORD - "There was no button on the outside that permitted him to send an elevator up to a higher floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir. It would take him quite a little job to get his hand all through there and press one."

 

. . .

​

[ this is part of the second testimony Truly gave before the Warren Commission ]

 

Mr. BALL - "Your testimony is filed in volume 28, I believe, of the Commission here. There are certain matters which have come to the attention of the Commission since then that I would like to inquire about, and that's the reason we are taking your deposition, which will be in addition to the testimony you have already given. Do you recall anytime that you saw any guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes; I did."

Mr. BALL - "Prior to November 22, 1963?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes; I saw two guns on November 20."

Mr. BALL - "Whose guns were they?"

Mr. TRULY - "They belonged to Mr. Warren Caster."

Mr. BALL - "Now, before inquiring into the circumstances of seeing two guns that belonged to Mr. Warren Caster on November 20, 1963, I'll ask you whether or not you ever at anytime before that time or after that time saw guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building?"

Mr. TRULY - "Never before."

Mr. BALL - "Never before, and between that date Wednesday, November 20, and Friday, November 22, did you ever see any guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building?"

Mr. TRULY - "I did see guns in there after the assassination."

Mr. BALL - "That is, you saw guns of police officers?"

Mr. TRULY - "Of the police officers."

Mr. BALL - "Carried by police officers?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes; and I saw a rifle being carried from the building."

Mr. BALL - "In other words, a rifle was found on the sixth floor?"

Mr. TRULY - "Yes."

 

. . .

​

Mr. BALL - "Before the assassination, was there any other occasion besides the one we are inquiring about, when you saw guns in the Texas School Book Depository Building?"

Mr. TRULY - "Never."

Mr. BALL - "On November 20, 1963, you saw two guns owned by Mr. Warren Caster, can you tell me where and when and the circumstances under which you saw these guns?"

Mr. TRULY - "It was during the lunch period or right at the end of the lunch period on November 20. Mr. Caster came in the door from the first floor and spoke to me and showed me two rifles that he had just purchased. I looked at these and picked up the larger one of the two and examined it and handed it back to Mr. Caster, with the remark that it was really a handsome rifle or words to that effect, at which time Mr. Caster explained to me that he had bought himself a rifle to go deer hunting with, and he hadn't had one and he had been intending to buy one for a long time, and that he had also bought a .22 rifle for his boy."

Mr. BALL - "Did you handle the .22 rifle?"

Mr. TRULY - "Not that I recall."

Mr. BALL - "You did see it, though?"

Mr. TRULY - "I did see it."

 

. . .

 

Mr. BALL - "What happened to these two rifles, Mr. Truly, that Mr. Caster got during the noon hour?"

Mr. TRULY - "They were placed back in the carton and Mr. Caster carried them out of the lobby door with him. That's the last I saw them."

Mr. BALL - "Did you ever see them again?"

Mr. TRULY - "Never--never."

Mr. BALL - "Did you ever see from that day until Friday, November 22, did you ever see those guns in the School Book Depository Building?"

Mr. TRULY - "No, sir; I never did."

 

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